Curse

Kurosaki129 · Dec 15, 2010, 07:36 AM // 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr monk rupsie

Since my team mostly takes a soul twisting ritualist with shelter/other prot spirits + save yourself. It reduces the difficulty overall.

I would say frostmaw is a pain. especially those hexes.

if you are mostly running spellcasters, consider bringing a paragon with a skill called "Hexbreaker Aria".

I was going through the dungeon with my other friend in the game. The skill helps ALOT.

AndrewSX · Dec 15, 2010, 08:13 AM // 08:13

Imo some dungeons are more annoying to reach in HM then the dungeon itself: Kath and Rragar(that are also enough hard by themself) for example, you must pass the burning forest in HM and it can be a pain...

Kurosaki129 · Dec 15, 2010, 10:05 AM // 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewSX

Imo some dungeons are more annoying to reach in HM then the dungeon itself: Kath and Rragar(that are also enough hard by themself) for example, you must pass the burning forest in HM and it can be a pain...

not to mention, also have to zone 1 map for those dungeons...

Personally, dungeons i find difficulty (during z-bountys) are:

1. SoO (Fendi's Rit minions spike)

2. Vloxen Excavations (annoying respawns of the boss's minions, and right before that, parties tend to not move along to the boss's gate entrance).

Those are typically the dungeons where i had a hard time monking

. We succeeded but it takes alot of mental energy to manage the party's conditions.

jon comgree · Dec 15, 2010, 12:17 PM // 12:17

shards of orr and vloxen definitely! if u h/h them or full party them or SC them or solo them they are most annoying dungeons! Fmaw i would say ties w. SoO bc of final fight & vloxen is right behind them.

Xenomortis · Dec 15, 2010, 12:48 PM // 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gennadios

Bellok IS the problem. Not only is his mob larger than even the average Slaver's group, but if taking them on using the long pull method, wiping will have a pretty good chance of rezzing your group in the shrine immediately behind the group you just pulled, cutting off any retreat options and guaranteeing failure then and there.

Bellok's mob has, IIRC;
One Summit Sage
One Summit Healer
A bunch of physicals, some of them from Slaver's and therefore equipped with Res Sig.
Bellok

And really, that's it. Everything else in that mob is trivial. If you've reached Bellok in HM you've already beaten the toughest mobs in that dungeon.
Sure his minions suck, but if you've been killing enough for minions to be a problem you've already got a lot of momentum and should be in a winning situation so you can take the time to kill a few of them.
Personally I think his Deathly Swarm is the scariest thing about him and flagging out neutralises it.
I'll admit wiping is a bit of a problem - if you pull back far enough (out of the corridor containing the shrine) you have a chance to res at the start of the level and keeping them all contained in that corridor with your heroes nicely spaced out should make killing their casters with AoE easier. With the amount of broken shit you can run thesedays, even H/H, you shouldn't be wiping at him.
And if you do wipe and get shrine camped, you can finish the dungeon from there on with 50 DP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Bringing

Just a question, besides bellok, which groups/parts of vloxen are giving you so much trouble?

I would say the following three mobs are trouble:
The mob after the Warrior boss on level 1 in that corridor. They're a Slaver's Exile type mob and the first real test in the dungeon.
The Mesmer boss is also a pain, especially since the Mesmer update - Clumsiness is effectively spammed there by him and a Summit Sage and Discharge Enchantment basically has no recharge. Thankfully it is possible to separate the boss from the group and you can pull that mob quite a way to score kills.
The third test is a much harder Slaver's Exile style mob - the one on the slope beyond the lake/water pit. That has a Summit Defender, a Priest and a Demolisher.
If you can deal with the two Slaver's mobs without wiping, Bellok should not be a problem.

All that said, a caster can walk through this dungeon no problem with standard Spiritway. A physical only has to watch out for Discharge Enchantment and Clumsiness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jon comgree

Fmaw i would say ties w. SoO bc of final fight & vloxen is right behind them.

You think Frostmaw is on par with Fendi Ninn?
In fact, you think any part of Frostmaw's Burrows is on par with Shards of Orr?

Corpus Vitalis · Dec 15, 2010, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wenspire

Frostmaw.... Wurm Bile says "hi!".

Pain Inverter says Hi! back

About the OP-Some of these people might have been giving you dungeons they just plain don't like. For example if you like something difficult, sometimes you forget the difficulty level and are just playing the game, having fun and when you get back in town say "That was easier than.....(insert troublesome dungeon name here)"

FengShuiDove · Dec 15, 2010, 02:09 PM // 14:09

It's been a long time since I've done it, but I recall Rragar's being an absolute pain. Resto and Smite Fleshreavers bundled up are just crap. Maybe I've improved since then, but I'm genuinely surprised there's not more love (hate?) for Rragar's on here. Of course, the boss fight isn't that hard, but the rest can be something else.

For difficulty of the entire sequence, I'd say:

-SoO (difficult mobs and boss)
-Rragar's (some crazy mobs on the lower levels)
-Vloxen/Kathandrax
-Else

Vloxen and Kathandrax are about the same to me. Really didn't have that much trouble in either except the Kathandrax boss fight is a bit broken (heroes don't pre-prot well, and Ilsundur can 1-2 shot you in NORMAL mode), and Vloxen does have the tough mobs mentioned numerous times in this thread. They were difficult, but I didn't find them insurmountable. Some of the folks in Shards and Rragar's made me want to pull my hair out though.

Yol · Dec 15, 2010, 02:23 PM // 14:23

My top three difficult dungeons in HM would by SoO, Vloxxen and Rragar's, with the order depending on which profession I'm running at the time. I've seen a few people here saying that the hero update should make the dungeons easier (I agree that a formation update such as aoe dmg scatter would help), but it's possible that part of the update will be that the difficulty will be raised if you use all-hero parties (e.g. "hero mode" adds 5 levels to all enemies).

Lanier · Dec 15, 2010, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

You think Frostmaw is on par with Fendi Ninn?
In fact, you think any part of Frostmaw's Burrows is on par with Shards of Orr?

Besides Fendi Nin, SoO isn't really all that bad. Of course, Fendi Nin alone is enough to catapult that dungeon near the top of my list (after Vloxen and Rragars for HM) but worms and elementals are a whole lot worse to fignt than the undead and enchanted weapons in SoO. Thats my opinion at least.

Hugh Manatee · Dec 15, 2010, 03:33 PM // 15:33

It's like megaman x 6 vs megaman x 4 and 5, where in 6 you had these pushover bosses but just sadistic levels, and in 4 and 5 iirc the levels were easy, then you get to the boss....

Ranking the bosses(as a Warrior H&H Master of the north):
#1 Fendi Nin: You have to kill him like 5 times, since the rit buff those ghosties just suck... It's less painful with SY! and earthshaker but still... you got to prepare for an attrition style victory... and the walk is like forever...
#2 Islunder Lord of Fire: the henchmen(and tbh many pugs at the time) don't know what to do with the grenades and seem to dive in the giant ball of fire... Miss a KD or rupt and watch your party evaporate. another attrition boss.
#3 The Prismatic Ooze: I can't beat them in either mode without wiping at least once, it doesn't help that they turn invincible and when they die like a million of them spawn...
#4 The Rit frog in bogroots: if you're not ready for it his spirit rift is like training for duncan...
#5 Magmus: It's like the prismatic ooze but there's only 1. Miss a rupt or a KD and watch your party take a firey nap...
#6 Muraki Lady of the Night: I know you can run the **** but still, balanced H&H party, miss a KD or rupt, you can get 1 shot blammo'd.
#7 the yellow frog mesmer: Stronger since the buff but still less of a hassle then the red guy.
#8 Frostmaw the Kinslayer: It depends on how you did up to this point. If you got a lot of party wide DP or have had problems with the wurms up till her you'll pay for it here.
#9 The remenant of antiquities: The diamond sjard thing can get anoying, especially if he decided to hit you with ice spike or deep freeze right after.
#10 The TPS Regulator Golem: If he manages to get into the backline and pulse it can suck, and the flametraps and 2 other guardians don't really help, but using the tactics that got you this far make him managable.
#11: Arachni: If you position right he's easy, but it's that there's like a ton of them that spawn with him, and if you're not reasy his AoE can chop up H&H.

I'd say the remaining are either anticlimactic or not chalenges. Zoldak kill himself with his HP buff wearing off and saccing to res the minions, the Freezie's easy, and it's almost impossible to die in fronnis's lair. Rragar, Eldritch Etin, Plauge of Destruction and Havok soulwail are all very anticlimactic...

For the level itself:
#1 Vloxen Excavations. The grave pool at the bottom of the stairs can suck, the first encounter with the slaver dwarves is a meat grinder and there's a few other spots like that.
#2 I'm going to say Kathandrax. In level 2 there's that cave with the lava on the ground where you have to fight the mesmer doggies and the flowstones. It's like putting foil in a microwave. There's a few other spots like that, later where you're under seige on the bridges with all the burners and the part with the bugs can get lame if you get overwhelmed. It's not as bad if you go in "SWAT" style(special weapons and tactics, IE a water ele with malestrom and ward vs harm, a mesmer ect).
#3 I'm going to say Shards of Orr but, only if you don't go in "swat" style pumping holy damage. A trick is to go /rt and take Sight Beyond Sight and a smiter backing you up You'll steamroll everything. Mel derv kicks ass here too. Go with either of those and it's easy up till fendi.
#4 Frostmaw's in Hard mode(with the H&H) The last part with the rolly balls. You can get a bunch of them stuck in there, it's both funny and sad... Add to that the DP builders, and unless you have a guy with hex eater sig or hexbreaker aira you're not going to do well. It's also long.
#5 Not my personal experience but Rragar's can suck if you don't constantly micro the flags. Also it's a very labrynthine map, you can get lost up "Ooze Alley"(the west part of level 1 with the stalagmites, looks like dots on the map)if you don't know where you're going. Same deal with the running char locking the gate.
#6 Oola's lab, the fire trap lake without the golem protection can be frustrating for some players. Never had a problem with it myself, but I've seen rage in ACs. Intereting thing, if you spawn a dwarf ghost, I think they attack and kill the traps...
#7 The ooze pit, AoE, AoE, and giant rolly balls...
#8 Cathedral of Flames: In HM the Charr and undead can be a problem, as can the enchanted weapons. AoE and popups with taps and jets can suck.
#9 Heart of the shiverpeak(HM) They added a few extra Djin and flowstones to the last part, and the first area can be like SoO light if you're not prepared.
#10 Arachni's Haunt. It's like ooze pit with spiders...
#11 Bogroot's. The beetles get meaner, the area in level 2 with the floaty glowy things you can get cornholed by a mob of incubii...

The rest that I recall weren't much "harder" then the average VQ or zone. darkmine's yeti got buffed a bit so the necro ones and mesmer ones got slightly more dangerous, but they're not a huge threat in the numbers you fight. Raven's point is vaetirs and destroyers, both pushovers. The bloodstone caves poison spouts may be more dangerous then the enemies in there, even then, just side step them. Fronis is impossible to die in, and snowman lair is only kinda challenging when you have to go for the blue key on in the trap alley. Sepulcher is only hard if you let the Regents of Ice spike you.

Overall Boss+level...

#1: Shards of Orr
#2: Vloxen
#3: Kathandrax
#4: Frostmaw
#5: Heart of the Shiverpeaks

Xenomortis · Dec 15, 2010, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

Besides Fendi Nin, SoO isn't really all that bad. Of course, Fendi Nin alone is enough to catapult that dungeon near the top of my list (after Vloxen and Rragars for HM) but worms and elementals are a whole lot worse to fignt than the undead and enchanted weapons in SoO. Thats my opinion at least.

Wurms don't have any form of healing. Nothing in Frostmaw does.
You get 4 Norn Allies that love to tank for you.
You can take minions.
If you're still afraid there exists a spell called Ward of Stability.

Undead mobs have monks, do a lot of damage and spam blind.
You cannot take Minions into SoO.

Sprites · Dec 15, 2010, 04:54 PM // 16:54

vloxen : final boss is easy , the necromancer boss on 2nd floor is insane

very large balanced group

SoO : this one is a pain , hard way through the dungeon , and hard boss

raven point : pretty annoying with all those AoE , i had to bring an ele warder to get through

Ghull Ka · Dec 15, 2010, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr monk rupsie

Since my team mostly takes a soul twisting ritualist with shelter/other prot spirits + save yourself. It reduces the difficulty overall.

Can I just say for a second... I agree!! Even for a hero!

Xandra does SURPRISINGLY well with a ST bar:

1 Soul Twisting (Elite)
2 Shelter
3 Union
4 Boon of Creation
5 Signet of Creation
6 Flesh of my Flesh
7 Pure was Li Ming
8 ?

She keeps perfect uptime on 1, 2, 3, and 4... she drops 7 like a champ. Dungeon life is pretty easy with a ST hero on board!

She has trouble with 5 though, and will often use it when no spirits are in earshot, but hey, she's a bot. The times she uses it properly make up for that.

Make sure that 8 is a skill that she'll use properly (without draining all her energy -- like Vital Weapon, she'll spam it on eeeeveryone all day and night). Also, make sure that 8 itsn't another Binding Ritual, because she'll waste ST charges on it.

Sorry for the brief de-rail, but lately I've been was pleased with Xandra's ST work lately. I just did a whole Master Dungeon Guide with her in tow and it was great. So when I saw you mention it I had to say something!

mage767 · Dec 15, 2010, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gennadios

Bellok IS the problem. Not only is his mob larger than even the average Slaver's group, but if taking them on using the long pull method, wiping will have a pretty good chance of rezzing your group in the shrine immediately behind the group you just pulled, cutting off any retreat options and guaranteeing failure then and there.

Not to mention having to wait for the corpses to disappear in between pulls. That part alone has taken up about 40% of my Vloxen runs.

The solution is to shut down Bellok and his gang with a suitable mesmer. I rolled through Vlox HM for a customer on my mes. running a FD build. My team build did not suffer a single death in the entire dungeon. The only con used was a celerity in lvl2.

Missing HB · Dec 15, 2010, 07:00 PM // 19:00

My top 3 for HM :
- Vloxen/ Slavers ( i put both coz in fact , it's groups of stone summit which usually make the dungeon hard.., rest of it being easy)
- SoO
- Heart of shiverpeaks ( with Magmus)

These , maybe except Magmus , are hard because they're almost impossible to do w/o some meta bars or bonus items. Other dungeons aren't especially hard ....

Dzjudz · Dec 15, 2010, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Wow so much hate for bellok! I've never even seen a problem there, it's the few groups before him (first the res shrine tunnel and then the pool-slope group(s)) that are the problem in my experience. And the first slaver-style group on the first level after the first boss.

StormDragonZ · Dec 15, 2010, 11:15 PM // 23:15

I'll mention the next three:

- Vloxen Excavations (11.55%)
- Rragar's Menagerie (8.49%)
- Darkrime Delves (7.93%)

TheRaven · Dec 16, 2010, 04:02 AM // 04:02

I'll have to disagree with most people here.

I do most HM dungeons with h/h or occasionally 1 or 2 others from my guild. When going with a guild team, I find all of the dungeons except Duncan easy enough to finish without much difficulty. When i go with H/H, it's a different story.

Hardest is SoO, definitely but for me the 2nd hardest has to be the Ooze Pit. Most of you have said it's easy, but it has never been easy for me. I just cannot finish that one with h/h without multiple wipes and i usually abandon it. (no cons, i don't use cons outside DOA)

The rest of the dungeons aren't difficult for me at all. Kathandrax and Vloxen used to be a pain when i first started dungeons, but I've been through both of them enough that I can usually finish with no wipes.

Rragar's, Frostmaw are fun. Frostmaw is probably my favorite dungeon and as long as you control your aggro, not a problem. The rest of the dungeons I'd consider easy.

Then again, that snowman dungeon has a "Difficulty Master" rating. It must be tough!! I'm scared to try it.

cellardweller · Dec 16, 2010, 05:22 AM // 05:22

Kathandrax for me, its the only one where bodyblocking doesn't trivialise the difficulty

Chthon · Dec 16, 2010, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Bellok's mob has, IIRC;
One Summit Sage
One Summit Healer
A bunch of physicals, some of them from Slaver's and therefore equipped with Res Sig.
Bellok

And really, that's it. Everything else in that mob is trivial. If you've reached Bellok in HM you've already beaten the toughest mobs in that dungeon.
Sure his minions suck, but if you've been killing enough for minions to be a problem you've already got a lot of momentum and should be in a winning situation so you can take the time to kill a few of them.
Personally I think his Deathly Swarm is the scariest thing about him and flagging out neutralises it.
I'll admit wiping is a bit of a problem - if you pull back far enough (out of the corridor containing the shrine) you have a chance to res at the start of the level and keeping them all contained in that corridor with your heroes nicely spaced out should make killing their casters with AoE easier. With the amount of broken shit you can run thesedays, even H/H, you shouldn't be wiping at him.
And if you do wipe and get shrine camped, you can finish the dungeon from there on with 50 DP.

I would say the following three mobs are trouble:
The mob after the Warrior boss on level 1 in that corridor. They're a Slaver's Exile type mob and the first real test in the dungeon.
The Mesmer boss is also a pain, especially since the Mesmer update - Clumsiness is effectively spammed there by him and a Summit Sage and Discharge Enchantment basically has no recharge. Thankfully it is possible to separate the boss from the group and you can pull that mob quite a way to score kills.
The third test is a much harder Slaver's Exile style mob - the one on the slope beyond the lake/water pit. That has a Summit Defender, a Priest and a Demolisher.
If you can deal with the two Slaver's mobs without wiping, Bellok should not be a problem.

This. PUGs and H+H tend to make it or break it on one of those two mobs. (PUGs usually on the first and H+H usually on the second.) Bellok has never given me much trouble.